H. OF R.)

Breach of Privilege.

[FEBRUARY, 1798.

by po means disgraceful. He should wrong the The question on the amendment was put and State of his nativity, he should wrong his col- negatived—52 to 44. leagues and himself, were he to undertake a for- Mr. Morris said, before the vote was taken on mal refutation of this calumny. The citizens of the resolution for expulsion, he wished to say a Connecticut will disdain the idea of being en- tew words. There was no doubt but that the lightened by that member's knowledge, or of being conduct of his colleague had been highly insulirevolutionized by his power, as they will repel ing to the House, and that he deserved expulsion. with indignation any imputation against their He also believed that the people of Vermont Representatives in Congress-Representatives would resent this conduct, which dishonored the who were born and educated amongst them, and character of the citizens of that State; and he whom, in consequence of their good opinion of thought it was the duty of that House to give them, they have appointed, by their unsolicited the people an opportunity of showing their disapsuffrages, to do their national business. Had the probation of a conduct so gross and indecent. assertion no other currency than the member from The question on the resolution was put and Vermont's word, he should not have noticed it; carried-51 to 43. but as it appeared upon the Journal, and had gone The committee then rose, and reported the out to the world, he thought it necessary to say amendment to the resolution, together with the what he had said on this subject. But for these evidence which had been taken before them. calumnies, it was probable that the outrage on The House took up the amendment (relative to Mr. Griswold would not have been committed; the offensive words in the defence) and agreed to but what could be a more serious charge against it-49 to 46. another than to be told, “You have betrayed your Mr. R. WILLIAMS then renewed his amendtrust?". This was what gave all the keenness to ment for confining the punishment to reprimand. the epithet of coward, when applied to an officer. Mr. Brooks hoped, if the House did not agree Mr. D. said he did not mean to cast any blame to the highest punishment, they would not agree upon gentlemen who differed from him in opin- to the lowest which they could inflict. He did ion; nor would he envy any gentleman the plea- not suppose the member from Vermont would sure they would have in the company of the gen- look upon this as a punishment; and if no other tleman from Vermont; if they chose to associate was to be ordered, the House would never get rid with such a kennel of filth, let them do so; let of his offences. them press him to their heart, and salute him as Mr. Macon said, it was observable there were their brother, they may do it without envy; let two opinions in the House ; one for expulsion, the them be designated as the companions of Mr. other for a reprimand. He did not think the Lyon, by being pointed at, by “ There goes the offence was such as would authorize an expulsion. member of Congress who voted to have Mat- He said there had been as many illiberal expresTHEW Lyon as a companion !" If they felt them. sions in the course of this debate as he had ever selves invulnerable to such a reproach, he ac- heard. Gentlemen had talked of party doing knowledged he had not attained to that degree of this, and party doing the other, whilst they theminsensibility. He himself would put him away, selves are the first to mention it. He hoped they as citizens removed impurities and filth from their would have kepl these things out of the sight of docks and wharves.

the world. If gentlemen of one description voied Mr. S. Smith thought, as he had determined to one way, those of another voted a contrary way. say nothing upon this subject, that he should not As for the punishment of being reprimanded in have received the censure of any one. He had the face of the House, which would be entered conversed with several gentlemen on both sides upon the Journal, he thought it a very serious the question, and he thought, in order to avoid a one, and he would almost as soon be hanged at lengthy discussion, which could have no effect once. He hoped, therefore, the punishment would but produce heat, it would be best to take a silent be thought at least equal to the offence. vote on the question. The gentleman who had The question was then taken by yeas and pays, just sat down had called upon him as a military and the amendment was negatived—52 to 44. man. He did not come here as a military man, The question was next taken upon the resolubut as a legislator. It seemed as if gentlemen tion for expulsion, by yeas and nays, and carriedwere determined to make him speak on this sub- yeas 52, nays 44, as follows: ject; if he had wished to do so, they would not have been able to have kept him silent. He ard, David Brooks, Stephen Bullock, Christopher G.

YEAs-George Baer, jr., Bailey Bartlett, Jas. A. Baythought the gentleman last up had made a speech Champlin, John Chapman, James Cochran, Joshua to litile purpose. If military opinions were wanted, Coit, William Craik, Samuel W. Dana, Thomas T. two military gentlemen had already given their Davis, John Dennis, George Dent, Thomas Evans, opinions. If

, twenty years ago, he had been asked Abiel Foster, Dwight Foster, Jonathan Freeman, Henry an opinion, he supposed he should have given such Glen, Chauncey Goodrich, William Gordon, William an one as the gentleman from Connecticut would Barry Grove, Robert Goodloe Harper, Thomas Hartley, not have liked to hear.

William Hindman, David Holmes, Hezekiah L. HosMr. Dana did not wish the gentleman to give mer, James H. Imlay, John Wilkes Kittera, Samuel bis opinion, and hoped he would excuse him for Lyman, James Machir, William Matthews, Daniel having given his, ihough he desired him not to Morgan, Lewis R. Morris

, Harrison G. Otis, Isaac do it.

Parker, Josiah Parker, John Reed, John Rutledge, jr., FEBRUARY, 1798.]

Breach of Privilege.

[H. OF R.

a

open their

eyes, and

James Schureman, Samuel Sewall, William Shepard, Lyon of Fairhaven," charged in the public papers Thos. Sinnickson, Samuel Sitgreaves, Nathaniel Smith, with being active to incite the people in his district Peleg Sprague, George Thaicher, Richard Thomas, to hold meetings, and to clamor against the stamp act, Mark Thomson, Thomas Tillinghast, John E. Van Alen he replied that he supposed he was the person meant, and Peleg Wadsworth.

but that this charge, as well as many others of a like Nais-Abraham Baldwin, David Bard, Lemuel Ben- nature, made against him, was unfounded. After a few ton, Thomas Blount, Richard Brent, Nathan Bryan, other remarks, Mr. Lyon began some animadversions Samuel J. Cabell, Thomas Claiborne, Wm Charles upon the temper of the people of Connecticut, and the Cole Claiborne, Matthew Clay, John Clopton, John conduct of their Representatives in Congress. He said Dawson, Lucas Elmendorph, Wm. Findley, John Fow. he had good reason to know and declare, that the memler, Nathaniel Freeman, jun., Albert Gallatin, William bers from that State were acting in direct opposition to B. Giles, James Gillespie, Andrew Gregg, John A. the opinions of nine-tenths of their constituents; that, Hanna, Carter B. Harrison, Jonathan N. Havens, Wal- regardless of the public good, they were seeking their ter Jones, Edw. Livingston, Matthew Locke, Nathaniel own private interests ; that their object was to obtain Macon, Blair McClenachan, Joseph McDowell, John offices for themselves; that if they could not obtain the Milledge, Anthony New, John Nicholas, Tompson J. most lucrative, they would not refuse those which were Skinner, Samuel Smith, Willian Smith, Richard Sprigg, less so, (mentioning two sums, which I think were nine jun., Richard Stanford, Thomas Sumter, Abram Trigg, thousand dollars and one thousand dollars ;) that he, John Trigg, Philip Van Cortlandt, Joseph B. Varnum, necticut, for he had to fight with them in his own dis

Mr. Lyon, had a good right to know the people of ConAbraham Venable, and Robert Williams. The Constitution requiring two-thirds of the Harper's seat, asked whether he had fought them with

trict. Upon this Mr. Griswold, who was sitting in Mr. members present to carry a vote of expulsion, the

a wooden sword, or with his wooden sword. Mr. Lyon motion was declared by the SPEAKER not carried. either not hearing this question, or affecting not to have

The following is the testimony taken in the heard it, continued his remarks to me, and added, that foregoing case, as delivered in at the Clerk's when the Connecticut people came into his district on table:

visits to their relations, they came with strong prejudices The Speaker, Jonathan Dayton, Esq., one of the

against him and his politics; but, after conversing with Representatives from the State of New Jersey, being them freely, he had always succeeded in bringing them duly sworn, this fifth day of February, one thousand over to his side ; that if he should go into that State seven hundred and ninety-eight, before the Commit- and talk with the people, he could tee of the Whole House, to whom was committed effect an entire change there. Upon which, Mr. Gristhe report of the Committee of Privileges of the sec. wold laying his hand gently upon Mr. Lyon's arm, in ond instant, proposing the following resolution for order to attract his attention, said, “ if you were to enter the adoption of the House, to wit: “ Resolved, That into Connecticut for the purpose you mention, you could Matthew Lyon, a member of this House, for a vio- not alter the opinion of the meanest hostler.” Mr. Lyon lent attack, and gross indecency, committed upon the replied that he knew better; he knew the people of person of Roger Griswold, another member, in the Connecticut well; that he had no doubt that, if he presence of the House while sitting, be, for this dis-were to remove thither, and establish or direct a press orderly behaviour, expelled therefrom,” by the Hon- there for six, nine or twelve months, he could effect a orable Richard Peters, Esq., Judge of the District revolution there, and induce them to turn out all their Court of the United States, for the District of Penn- present members. Upon my observing that this affordsylvania, to declare the truth, the whole truth, and ed another instance of the influence which men's wishes nothing but the truth, touching the subject matter of had over their belief; and upon my asking, if this were the report, so referred to the said committee, deposed true, how he could account for the people of Connectias follows:

cut having uniformly selected for their Representatives, When the ballots of the House for managers of the

ever since the commencement of the present Governimpeachment against Mr. Blount were brought to the ment, gentlemen of the same political principles; he table to be counted, and the committee who were named answered, that they (the Representatives) had blinded as tellers were actually engaged in that business, I istering opiates to them, and would only permit one

the eyes of their constituents—were constantly adminwalked forth from the Chair, without adjourning the side of the question to be made known. Mr. Lyon furHouse, in order to take a little exercise about the room, ther added,

that he thought, upon the whole, that there as had not unfrequently been the case in reading lengthy communications. I placed myself by the side

was one, and only one, of the delegation which he might of a member from New York, and in the chair usually thoughts of moving into the State, and fighting them on

and allow to come again; that he had serious occupied by Mr. Dana, when I soon heard some express their own ground. Upon which Mr. Griswold repeated sions rather warmer than usual at the fire, behind me, the substance of a former question, and asked, whether, and turning, observed that they passed between Mr. when he should come, he would take with him his Lyon, of Vermont, and Mr. Dana, of Connecticut. I wooden sword. Upon which followed the indecency addressed myself immediately to them, and said, “Gen. which has given rise to this reference. tlemen, keep yourselves cool ;” and afterwards added, “ if you proceed much further, you will want seconds." The said deponent being interrogated by Matthew Lyon, Upon this, Mr. Lyon addressed himself to me, and said, Esquire, and other members of the House, further among other things, that he had, in his own mind, de- deposed as follows : signated the embassy to Cayenne for Mr. Dana; upon As Mr. Lyon leaned on the bar, near me, and spoke which, in order to give a turn of pleasantry to the con louder than was necessary for me to hear, I concluded versation, I asked Mr. Lyon whether he had reserved it was intended by him to be heard by those who were for himself the mission to Kamtschatka, among the furred near. tribes. Upon my asking whether he was meant by the The conversation was carried on with good humor; H.OF R.)

Breach of Privilege.

[FEBRUARY, 1798.

a

Mr. Griswold, when he spoke, certainly had a smile on deserting an advanced post? He said he was; but athis countenance.

tempted to show he was not so culpable as the rest. At the first conversation between Mr. Dana and Mr. Said I, “ did you know you were execrated by the whole Lyon, something had been said on the opposition to the army?" He said he did. I then asked whether he stamp act in Vermont, and a meeting therein, on that was in company with the officer who came to General subject.

Gates's headquarters, and reported the desertion of the I believe the words spoken by Mr. Lyon did not allude men, and whom the General called a dd scoundrel to any vote of the members of Connecticut on any par- and coward, and ordered to be put under guard; upon ticular question, but generally to their political conduct. which Mr. Lyon replied that he himself was the very

Mr. Lyon said that the people of Connecticut were officer, but that he told General Gates, that, being an deceived by their Representatives, who were constantly officer, he might be arrested, but was not to be put unadministering opiates to them, and it was only after- der guard. In the same conversation I observed that wards, on my asking why those persons were sent as application had been made to the Commander-in-Chief Representatives, that he replied, the people were per- for leave to turn out the drums and fifes of the army, to mitted to hear but one side.

beat a certain disgraceful march, upon the departure of I take it that Mr. Lyon, although not in warmth, in- those officers from the garrison, who, it was said, had tended that his assertions should be believed by those persuaded their men to desert; and that I recollected who heard him.

their beating the march upon the heights of TiconAfter Mr. Griswold had received the insult, I saw deroga. him draw back his arm, and expected a blow would be Upon being questioned by one of the gentlemen given ; afterwards, I saw from his countenance, that he standing in the circle, whether it was a part of the senhad changed his mind, and he then wiped his face. tence of the Court Martial that the cashiered should wear

The conversation appeared to be conducted in good wooden swords, I answered that I had not heard it to humor.

be a part of the sentence in this case, nor ever in any The conversation respecting Connecticut came vol- other. untarily from Mr. Lyon, and unsuggested by anybody Mr. Lyon appeared always, to me, to be willing to else.

attend to inquiries respecting this business, and to give Mr. Lyon received my question as to the mission to a calm reply. Kamtschatka, in a pleasant way. In another part of the The Paymasters, although only Staff officers, ranked conversation, Mr. Lyon was comparing the informa- as Captains in the line. It was only that in case of intion of the people of his district with that of the people sults from any of the men that they might put them unof Connecticut, alluding to the light he had conveyed der arrest; but when they went into action they placed among them. Mr. Brooks observed that the extraordi- themselves in the ranks. They would take command nary light appeared from the extraordinary luminary in case all the officers of a garrison were killed, in prethey sent to represent them.

ference to a Sergeant, but not of any commissioned offiI did not hear a syllable from any member of Con

A person under disgrace, as a coward, would not necticut, of insult or remark on the conduct of the peo- be associated with by the officers of the army, or permitple of Vermont.

ted to hold a Staff commission for any length of time. Mr. Griswold, in laying his hand on Mr. Lyon, did it I never heard in the army that Mr. Lyon had received gently, and apparently for the purpose of calling his at- any new appointment after his disgrace, but only since, tention merely.

from him, and also then heard he was not allowed long The Speaker, at the time of the conversation, knew to remain in it. But I did not stay in the army until that the wooden sword had relation to Mr. Lyon's ha- | the retreat. ving been cashiered in the army. I knew it from a pre- Mr. Lyon, when cashiered, was in the rank of a subvious conversation with Mr. Lyon, and my having altern, as I understood. been in the army at Canada, at the time. The only the said deponent, being further interrogated on the reason for my supposing that Mr. Lyon did not hear what Mr. Griswold said, was, that it produced no

eighth day of February, one thousand seven hundred change in Mr. Lyon's countenance, though spoken loud

and ninety-eight, on his oath aforesaid, answered

to the several interrogatories so put to him, as follows, enough for him to hear; and I heard the words distinct

to wit: ly. Mr. Lyon and myself were at equal distance from Mr. Griswold. I did not observe the cause of Mr. Gris- Question. Did you observe Mr. Griswold in Mr. Har. wold's leaving his chair and going to Mr. Lyon, but on per's chair, when the conversation commenced between turning round, I perceived him then listening to Mr. Mr. Lyon and yourself? Lyon. During the conversation between Mr. Griswold A. I do not recollect to have seen him at the first inand Mr. Lyon, I did not observe any collection of mem- stant, but did see him there during the earlier part of bers round the fire-Mr. Dana was passing and re-pass-the conversation. ing before the fire.

Q. Did you see Mr. Griswold until about the time he Mr. Lyon seemed to insinuate that there was some- put the first question to Mr. Lyon about the wooden body influencing the printers, who permitted them to sword ? publish only on one side.

A. About the time. I had a conversation with Mr. Lyon some days be- Q. Can you say with certainty what part of the fore, at the fire, in the House. A gentleman from New conversation with Mr. Lyon Mr. Griswold heard ? York being present, with others, (Mr. Cochran, Mr. A. I cannot. Hosmer, and Mr. Harper,) asked him what was the Q. Was it the first time when Mr. Griswold made meaning of a newspaper paragraph, viz: “ that he had the observation of the wooden sword, that he laid his outgrown two things.” He said it alluded to his hav- hand on Mr. Lyon's arm? ing been cashiered at Ticonderoga. I asked if he was A. It was not, but at the second time, and I recollect one of those who had been cashiered with infamy, for his first laying his hand there, when he made the obser

cer.

February. 1798.)

Breach of Privilege.

[H. OF R.

ness.

vation as to Mr. Lyon not being able to change the sent. Which stroke of wit was received pleasantly by opinion of the meanest hostler.

Mr. Lyon, as it appears to have been intended.

Mr. Griswold had removed outside of the bar to SAMUEL SMITA, Esq., one of the Representatives from

the State of Maryland, being duly sworn, as afore- where Mr. Lyon stood. At this time, having left my said, on the fifth day of February, one thousand seat with intention to leave the House, I leaned on the seven hundred and ninety-eight, deposed as follows: bar next to Mr. Lyon, and fronting Mr. Griswold. Mr.

Lyon having observed, (still directing himself to the On the day on which the ballot was taken for the Speaker) that

, could he have the same opportunity of choice of managers on the part of this House, to conduct the impeachment against William Blount, the doubt he could change the opinion of the people in

explanation that he had in his own district, he did not Speaker being out of the Chair, the members out of Connecticut; Mr. Griswold then said, “If you, Mr. their places, engaged in common conversation, and the committee counting the ballots—having taken my change the opinion of the meanest hostler in the State.”

Lyon, should go into Connecticut, you could not letters from the box, returning to my seat, I passed Mr. To which Mr. Lyon then said, “ That may be your Lyon, who was engaged in a jesting conversation with opinion, but I think differently, and if I was to go into other members, such as gentlemen frequently amuse themselves with, when the House is not in actual busi- have mentioned.” Mr. Griswold then said, “ Colonel

Connecticut, I am sure I could produce the effect I While reading my letters, that kind of amusing Lyon, when you go into Connecticut, you had better conversation continued, and I think I heard some per- take with you the wooden sword that was attached to son, but whom I knew not, mention an expected oppo

-.” On which Mr. Lyon sition to the stamp act, in the State of Vermont, tell spit in Mr. Griswold's face, who coolly took his hand

you at the camp at Mr. Lyon, (one of its Representatives,) that petitions kerchief out of his pocket, and wiped his face. Beagainst it were expected, and asked him, jestingly, whe- lieving that the quarrel would go no further, I left the ther he brought any such with him. Not thinking the

House. conversation interesting, my attention was particularly directed to my letters, when I heard Mr. Lyon direct- David Brooks, Esq., one of the Representatives ing his conversation to the Speaker, who sat in the scat

from the State of New York, being duly sworn, as behind me, generally occupied by Mr. Dana; Mr.

aforesaid, on the fifth day of February, one thousand Griswold in that of Mr. Harper; there being between

seven hundred and ninety-eight, deposed as follows,

to wit: them only two chairs, occupied by Mr. Hosmer and Mr. Brooks. Mr. Lyon, leaning on the outside of the At the time which has been mentioned, I was sitting bar, seemed to be giving the Speaker an account of the in my seat, and the Speaker in Mr. Dana's. I had political sentiments of the people of Connecticut, nine heard a part of the conversation which passed between tenths of whom he declared were of different sentiments Mr. Lyon and Mr. Dana. The subject of the converfrom their Representatives; that they only wanted their sation, as well as I recollect, was the amendment of the eyes to be opened, and they would change the whole gentleman from Virginia, to the bill for regulating delegation. The Speaker said, jestingly, you would foreign intercourse. The conversation was loud, and spare one? To which Mr. Lyon, in the same style, the Speaker spoke to them as he has stated. Mr. answered yes, for he goes nearest the sentiments of the Dana then broke off the conversation, and went away people of any of them. He said he had to fight with and walked backwards and forwards in the passage. the Connecticut men, when they came into his district The Speaker then entered into conversation with Mr. to see their relations, and although they censured his poli- Lyon. About this time Mr. Griswold came and sat tics at first, yet they always were convinced, on hearing himself in Mr. Harper's seat. Mr. Lyon, speaking of his reasons. Mr. Griswold then said something which the conduct of the members from Connecticut, stated created a loud laugh, which I did not hear, but which I that, on his passage home or back, he passed through have since understood, related to the wooden sword. I part of the State, and heard the opinion of the people. turned, and observed that Mr. Lyon still continued his Said that nine-tenths of the people of Connecticut difconversation, directed to the Speaker, and in the same fered in sentiments with their Representatives in the style of jocularity—indeed, all the gentlemen appeared House; that the members from the State did not fairly to be in perfect good humor, and to consider the con- represent the sentiments of their constituents; that versation as amusing-in the course of which, Mr. they were seeking their own interest ; they were lookLyon, remarking on what had been said in debate by ing for offices; it was immaterial what salaries were two or three gentlemen of Connecticut. respecting the annexed, whether nine thousand or one thousand dolnine thousand dollars paid to Ministers Plenipotentiary, lars, they thought either worthy of their attention; he being such an insignificant thing as to be scarcely had lived many years in the State of Connecticut, worth accepting, said that he knew better ; that whether and was well acquainted with the disposition of the the salary was one thousand or nine thousand dollars, people. He had occasion, frequently, in his own disit would be always acceptable-private interest being trict, to contend with them, when they came there more their view than public good-observing that he upon visits to their relations, and had often convinced knew the people of Connecticut well, having lived them they were wrong. He had no doubt that, if he there formerly, and having lately passed through that were to set up a press in Connecticut, he could turn State. Mr. Brooks, of New York, then asked if he had out all the present Representatives. I did not hear passed through his district ? Mr. Lyon said he had the exception of one, as mentioned by others—it appassed through certain towns. Mr. Brooks remarked, peared to be all done in a bragging, bantering manner. you were in the back-ground there, as you frequently I then asked if he had not been in my district ?. He

Mr. Lyon having remarked that, for want of pro- said he had, but there was nothing to be done there; per information being received in Connecticut, he con- meaning they were incorrigible, and not to be considered the knowledge of the people of his own district vinced. He then compared the situation of the people as superior. To which, Mr. Brooks jestingly replied of the two States, as to information, and said the peothat they had shown it by the great luminary they had ple in his district were far the most enlightened. I H. OF R.)

Breach of Privilege.

[FEBRUARY, 1798.

a

then made the observation stated by the gentleman A. It appears to me he did. I have no doubt he did. examined before me.

Q. Have you any reason to suppose that Mr. Lyon When he talked of contending, or fighting with the saw Mr. Griswold in Mr. Harper's seat, previous to his people of Connecticut, Mr. Griswold asked, if he had observation respecting the wooden sword ? not better take his wooden sword. I thought he did A. I do not know that he did. When I directed not hear it, as I looked at him, thinking it a pressing my discourse to Mr. Lyon, he turned to me, and Mr. question, and he did not change countenance, but con- Griswold was sitting at my left hand. tinued his conversation with the Speaker. Mr. Gris- Q. Have you any particular recollection of Mr. wold then said, he does not hear me, or J said he does Griswold's being in your seat, till about the time when not hear you—I do not recollect which. Mr. Griswold he made the first observation respecting the wooden afterwards went on the outside of the bar, and stand-sword ? ing by Mr. Lyon, laid his hand on his arm, and said A. He was in the seat some time before that obser. You could not change the opinion of a single hostler in vation was made by him. I cannot possibly say how the State of Connecticut. Mr. Lyon then talked of long. setting up a press in Connecticut, and fighting them on Q. Was it not apparent to you, from the course of their own ground. Mr. Griswold then said, you will the conversation, that the sarcasm used by Mr. Grisfight them with your wooden sword. Mr. Lyon then wold, respecting the wooden sword, was by way of respit in his face. Upon this, Mr. Griswold stepped tort to Mr. Lyon's observation with respect to the Repback with his right foot, looked steadily at Mr. Lyon, resentatives of the people of Connecticut ? and stiffened his arm, as if going to strike. Mr. Dana A. It appears to me that it was. Mr. Lyon, in then observed, they would consider of this matter; and speaking of the people of Connecticut, said he would I said, this is not the place; there is a time and place fight them on their own ground, and I think what was for everything. Mr. Griswold then wiped his face with said of the wooden sword, was a retort to the obser. his handkerchief, and went out with his colleague. Ivation. think the Speaker immediately rose from the chair he Hezekiah L. HOSMER, Esq., one of the Representahad been in, as, on looking round, I saw the chair tives from the State of New York, being duly sworn empty.

as aforesaid, on the sixth day of February, one thouI have not been so particular as I might have been, sand seven hundred and ninety-eight, deposed as if Mr. Speaker had not stated the facts so fully and follows: correctly, in his testimony, from which mine only differs,

During the canvassing of the votes for managers the as a part differs from the whole.

Speaker left the Chair and seated himself by my side, The said deponent being interrogated by several in the seat usually occupied by Mr. Dana, of Connecti

members, answered to the interrogatories so put to cut. We heard a conversation carried on with some him, as follows, to wit:

warmth between Mr. Dana, of Connecticut, and Mr. Question. Did Mr. Lyon say that the printers de- Lyon, of Vermont. The Speaker spoke to them, and ceived the people.

checked them, and they iminediately separated. Mr. A. He said the Representatives deceived the people, Lyon then came to the bar, leaned on it, and a conver. blinded or hoodwinked them, and administered opiates sation took place between him and the Speaker. It to them. That in Connecticut, it was permitted only commenced, as nearly as I can recollect, with something to publish one side of the question.

relative to the stamp act, but I cannot recollect what. Q. Did Mr. Griswold appear to be angry, or in good Mr. Lyon mentioned that, in the course of his journey humor, in this conversation ?

hither or home, he had passed through part of ConnecA. Mr. Griswold spoke with his usual easiness and ticut, and conversed with some of the people, and found good humor.

their sentiments opposite to those of their RepresentaQ. Do you suppose the publications about the wooden tives in this House. Some general conversation then sword, were calculated to throw disgrace on the mem- took place, in which we all took a part, but it was of ber from Vermont?

little consequence, and it is not forcibly impressed on A. I cannot consider them in any favorable light my mind. Mr. Lyon then, addressing himself to the they must certainly be reckoned disgraceful.

Speaker, and speaking of the conduct of the members The said deponent being further interrogated by the of Connecticut, said he believed that nine-tenths of the

said Matthew Lyon, and other members, on the people of Connecticut differed from the sentiments adeighth day of February, one thousand seven hundred vanced by the Representatives of that State on this and ninety-eight, answered to the several interrogato- floor; they were pursuing their own interest; that they ries so put to him, as follows, to wit:

were influenced by a desire to obtain offices, and it was Question. Had not Mr. Griswold joined the group immaterial how lucrative those offices were ; that they and taken the seat of Mr. Harper, next to the seat occu- would be equally influenced by an office of one thoupied by you, before Mr. Lyon made the observations sand dollars as one of nine thousand dollars. On the relative to the Representatives from the State of Con- Speaker's asking him how the people came to send necticut, mentioned in your deposition ?

such Representatives as they had from the establishment A. I think he had. I recollect, perfectly, that it of the Constitution, he said that the Representatives was in an early stage of the conversation that Mr. blinded the eyes of their constituents, and it was only Griswold took that seat, and he must have heard a necessary for the people to be informed to induce them principal part of the conversaton. I believe Mr. Gris- to oppose them. If he were to remove into Connectiwold took the seat of Mr. Harper, immediately after cut and set on foot a printing press, he had no doubt Mr. Dana left off conversation with Mr. Lyon.

he could bring about a revolution in the sentiments of Q. Did he take this seat time enough to hear the the people. He was well acquainted with the people observations of Mr. Lyon, with respect to the Repre- of Connecticut, as the first part of his life in this counsentatives from Connecticut seeking offices, and pur- try had been passed in that State. Several persons suing their own interests regardless of the public good ? from Connecticut had been in Vermont to visit their